What kind of parent are you really? Queer Eye's Tan France, Top Chef host Padma Lakshmi, The Hills star Whitney Port, and more celebrities open up about how they are with their kids on Parents's podcast We Are Family.
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We all have an idea of the kind of parent we want to be, but it doesn't always turn out that way. In this episode of We Are Family, host Julia Dennison recalls her favorite moments with past celebrity guests—everyone from Queer Eye's Tan France to Real Housewives of New York City fan-favorite Dorinda Medley to Superstore star Ben Feldman—on their "parent personalities." Spoiler alert: They're all totally unique.

For Anna Sale, host of the podcast series Death, Sex, & Money, things are pretty "free range" in her house. "I'm a parent who is pretty comfortable letting my kids do almost probably, basically, crossing the line into dangerous things on the playground," says Sale. "Things like my 5-year-old hanging by her knees from the really high monkey bars, I'm like, it's cool. She's cool. She wants to try that."

And Top Chef host Padma Lakshmi, a single mom to her daughter Krishna, still sleeps and bathes with her tween—something that she says is "very East Indian." Because of that, she calls her their bond "close and totally loving and totally joyful. It is the primary relationship of my life without even a close second."

As for stylist and new dad Tan France, his family and childhood is going to advise how he'll parent. "I lived a very traditional upbringing and I can't remove myself from that, which means that we really instill discipline in our children," says France. "I expect that I will expect that of my child. We're usually stricter parents. I definitely will be the strict parent. I hope that I will have a wonderful relationship with my child, but I know I will be more strict and Rob will definitely be the sweet, "Yes of course my dear" [parent]."

Check out We Are Family Episode 13 now for more celebrity parents on their "parent personalities."

Listen to We Are Family on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, TuneIn, Stitcher, Google, and everywhere podcasts are available.

Listen to Season 2, Episode 13 right now:

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Julia: Hi. I'm Julia Dennison, host of We Are Family. Over the last few months, I've had so many fascinating conversations about parenting with actors, writers, TV stars, and so many other interesting people.

We've talked about our relationships with our biological families, our found families, and, of course, our kids.

Becoming a parent is such a transformation in anyone's life. We never know the kind of mom or dad we're going to be, until it happens…although we may have an idea.

I wanted you to hear some of my favorite moments, where my guests share real talk about the kind of parent they turned out to be.

It's what the host of the podcast series Death, Sex, & Money, Anna Sale, calls our "parent personality."

Anna is married to Arthur and has two young daughters, June and Eve, and I asked her how motherhood changed her.

Anna Sale: So many ways. I feel like there's parts of me that are just more, but I don't feel like, for me, I've had a lot of parts that I've had to really let go of. But I feel like as a parent, I just feel like my life is full, like fuller.

And certainly I guess... I think that having a second child I think ramped it up even more because that made the way that I move through the world, and the way that our family routines work, they're pretty prescribed. So I think the one big thing I had to let go of was flexibility and spontaneity which I miss, and will someday hopefully get a little bit more back into my life, but it's really fun. It's really fun to get to know these people who've just shown up.

Julia: Yes, absolutely, with their own individual personalities and everything like that... So often as a parent, I just think that... I would always think that I would know what to expect when it came from my daughter's personality, and then you find out that they're their own humans with their own ways of being, and it's quite remarkable. That sounds obvious, but it is a thing that dawns on you. So you talked about the uncertainty around the time that you're developing what you called your "parent personality." You just don't know what parent you're going to be until you are one. What mom do you think that you turned out to be? And what about Arthur? What kind of dad is he?

Anna: Those are big questions. I feel... One thing that I have observed is that I am like, "Huh, this is interesting." I'm a parent who is pretty comfortable letting my kids do almost probably, basically, crossing the line into dangerous things on the playground, which I think is like, when you observe-

Julia: Free range, we'll call it free range.

Anna: Yeah. Your relationship to risk, I think as a parent, is something that is interesting to notice. Arthur has a similar thing of just like, "We'll take the kids down in a raft, down the river, put them both in life jackets and try that out." Or, we spend a lot of time outside and exploring outside and climbing trees. And so I think that that has informed an exploring and adventuring spirit.

So yeah, I don't really think I can tell you what kind of mother I am, because I feel like it just keeps changing. And I feel like it's something more that you notice-

Julia: Of course.

Anna: ... than what I'm intentional about necessarily. I feel it's what causes me extreme anxiety. I notice things like, I get really freaked out when it's wildfire season out here. I had a really hard time thinking about earthquakes, and the earthquake risk every night going to bed every night once I became a mother. It was like, I've had to work on how not to just have catastrophic thinking right before I go to bed. But things like my 5-year-old hanging by her knees from the really high monkey bars, I'm like, it's cool. She's cool. She wants to try that. Yeah.

Julia: Yeah, no, absolutely. And so obviously like your podcast is Death, Sex, & Money talking about these big topics. Have you put much thought... And your daughters are still super young, but 5-year-olds ask crazy questions. I know this because I have one. Have you had thoughts about how you're going to approach those bigger topics with your kids, and have you had any conversations yet with June about those really big topics at all?

Anna: Yeah. We have. I think the one that asserts itself, whether you like it or not, is death. For us, we were lucky that her first encounter with death was the tarantula, Sparkles, in her preschool class. So that became... She got to practice the rituals of death and remembering with Sparkles. But it was not long after Sparkles died when they buried the memory box, and they talked about how they would remember Sparkles, and then somebody very close to us lost her father. And so we had that template of like, so she's very sad right now because her father died. And so she's thinking about how she's going to remember her father, and these are the things that she's doing to help honor her father. And so we use the word dead a lot, whether it's everything from a person to a bug, just introducing this idea that death exists.

And sex, we haven't really gotten into the real meat of sex yet, but something that I... I interviewed a sex educator once, and I thought about this a lot. She worked with communities of people with disabilities and talked a lot about how they could assert their own agency around how they... What was a private thing for them and a private part of their body versus not private part of their body. And you think of how to... Giving people words for that in the context of being cared for. And she went on to describe how she had used that template for her kids when they were really little. And with kids, you've got to talk about body stuff really early on, as soon as the potty training starts. You have to explain these very basic ideas of like, "These are private parts of our body. This is private. We don't do this. This is public." And this idea of these private parts of ourselves, we share them with people... The only people who we trust, we share it, you get to choose this.

So you're creating this template for consent even though not talking about sex, but we're talking about bodily autonomy, and I hope to build on that. And for us, where babies come from and how they get there, we haven't fully closed the circle, but they know... One thing that's cool is like, my daughter June knows that my C-section scar is where she was born. And then my other daughter, Eve, who I had a VBAC, she knows she came out of another part of my body. So we talk about that. But that's the building blocks that we're working with right now.

Julia: Anna Sale talking about how to tackle those big questions as a parent.

Stylist and star of the Netflix series Queer Eye, Tan France has only just become a father, welcoming his son Ismael with his husband Rob. But Tan already has a strong idea of the kind of parents they are going to be.

Tan France: I've always known the kind of dad I was going to be, quite honestly. So here's what we expected our roles would be: I'm very South Asian. Very, very, very South Asian. I mean, I'm very westernized also, but I lived a very traditional upbringing and I can't remove myself from that, which means that we really instill discipline in our children. I expect that I will expect that of my child. We're usually stricter parents. I definitely will be the strict parent. I hope that I will have a wonderful relationship with my child, but I know I will be more strict and Rob will definitely be the sweet, "Yes of course my dear"-

Julia: The good pop.

Tan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. He will always be, I think, the very sweet one that the kids will go to when they want something that I won't give them. (laughter from both)

Julia: Oh that's amazing. That's amazing. I think it's so interesting, the point you bring up about that balance, because we talk often at Parents about the mental load that moms will often feel like they have to do the majority of parenthood, parenting rather, even when they have a dad who's very willing and able. I feel like so much of this imbalance starts right at the very beginning from day one. I think it's interesting because you've partnered with Bobbie, a formula company, to try and help change that conversation around how people feed their babies. I think that's sort of part of that larger conversation too. Can you talk to me a little bit about that?

Tan: Yeah. So our surrogate wasn't able to pump for us and we didn't want to use donor milk. We did a lot of research into donor milk and for us it just wasn't right for us. I'm a formula baby, a couple of my siblings are, my husband's a formula baby, and I feel like I turned out just fine.

Julia: I always say that they're going to grow up and eat Hot Cheetos anyway, so-

Tan: Absolutely.

Julia: ... why do we obsess over this?

Tan: Absolutely. So obviously I'm in a very interesting position, where when we say that we're having a baby a lot of people have an opinion on how we're having a baby and how we will feed our baby

I want to make it clear to everyone listening: I 100 percent believe that breast milk is the gold standard. So does Bobbie. We all understand that. If I could breastfeed my child, 100 percent I would. I can't, therefore I need to not be shamed for that.

Julia: Yeah.

Tan: So I posted about it. and I got 17,000 DMs that day and almost every one was filled with such venom, such venom.

Julia: You're kidding?

Tan: I think it's because I think they were misunderstanding what I was trying to say with my participation in this campaign. I wasn't saying we don't need to support the moms who are wanting to breastfeed, of course they should be given every support they need. We also need to not shame the people who cannot breastfeed their child or give their children breast milk and have to formula feed, or choose to formula feed-

Julia: Totally. And choose to, like you don't even ... It's like if you want to do it do it., you know?

Tan: Do it. I know.

And so reading the comments on my post, there was a lot of hate—absolutely a lot of hate—but there was also ... It didn't bother me because there was also so much love between women, between moms, on these comments who were saying ... One of them would say, "I felt such guilt. I struggled with this for so many years." Then other women would comment such beautiful support. There are thousands of comments under that post. If ever you just want to feel like there's some good in the world and that-

Julia: I love that.

Tan: ... there is some positivity between moms please just look through those DMs, it's actually quite beautiful.

Julia: Queer Eye's Tan France reminding us that as parents, we all face challenges.

Writer and host of Top Chef, Padma Lakshmi is a single mom to her tween daughter Krishna and they have a very special bond.

Padma Lakshmi: My relationship with her is what it always has been, which is close and totally loving and totally joyful. It is the primary relationship of my life without even a close second. Maybe because I'm a single mom, maybe it's because it's just her and I are living together in the house. But whatever the reason, I feel like my relationship with Krishna is just so close. And it's not without its challenges, like any parental relationship, but now it's becoming closer in a much more intellectual way, which is really interesting. Krishna is 11. So every stage of her development for me has been so wonderful to watch and so informative, not only about her life, but about my life. Because one thing that children do make you do is they make you relive your childhood through them, vicariously through their experiences. And it's nice to have that. I think it's really wonderful to have that. And I hope that I'm really thoughtful in my role as her mother, because I don't think there's one formula to it, I really don't. And I don't think that every kid requires the same kind of parenting either. So I think it's a very subjective thing. And so I think for young parents, it can be very daunting, because you do get advice from so many people and so many sources. As a good parent you want to read, you want to ask your elders, you want to see what your peers are doing. And one thing I learned and I think it's served me well so far, at least, is that my closeness to Krishna as a parent depends on being her guardian, but also understanding her.

So I think that's really the basis of my relationship with her. Yes, it's close, but if I step back from it, I think when it's close, when it's difficult, when it's easy, hopefully it's fun a lot of the time, it certainly is for me. I always wanted to be a parent, but I never knew how fun motherhood would be. And I know that it's not always like that for everybody. And so I want to give those people a shout out because there are stretches in parenting that are really difficult, genuinely trying on us. And I have those too. And not everybody has fun being a parent, but I do. And I love my relationship with her. I love first and foremost, understanding her and learning about her every day because she changes every day a little bit. And I'm fascinated with her. I really am. And I learned a lot about myself through parenting Krishna. I think it has made me a better person, frankly.

And think about my life before being a parent and after being a parent. I think those in my case are two different people. Of course, the person who didn't have a kid is inside the person who now has a kid and is a parent. But it's such a deep and metaphysical change in your psyche and spirit and your body too, for me. I'm very physically connected to Krishna, even though she's 11. I come from an Eastern background, so a lot of my parenting is very Asian, is very east Indian. And so we still sleep together and we still take baths.

Julia: I do that too with my daughter.

Padma: And I don't think it's like attachment parenting, but I put it to you this way, I am not the kind of parent that Ferber-izes

Julia: This is We Are Family and I'm Julia Dennison and we're listening to some of my favorite moments as guests share their "parent personalities."

Real Housewife Dorinda Medley is another single mom who has a very close bond with her daughter. She told me she was surprised at how becoming a mother changed her.

Dorinda Medley: I remember my mom said, oh boy, finally someone is going to clip Dorinda Lynch's wings. I can't wait. I was like, oh no. No one is going to clip my wings. I have the nanny, the baby nurse, the housekeeper, I'm going to literally have this baby, drop the baby weight. And off to Venice I go in February. Right. I was like, I'm going to be that person.

And I'll never forget the moment when she, I talked about in the book. It really was like, when she came out and she looked at me and I was like, I know you. This is it. This is the beginning, the middle and the end right in front of me. And I really felt that that invisible string that I felt always from my grandmother to my mother and my mother to me, literally extend to her. And I went home and I was like, I'm never leaving you. You know what I mean? I just... It was just, and it made me grow up so fast and make me so responsible and all of... The thing that really was amazing to me is everything that my mother used to do with her hands and the way she handled it. I saw me doing with my hands and caring for things. So it was just like, I'd been preparing all my life for that role, but I didn't know it. And I had people preparing me for that role. And I didn't know it.

Julia: Right. I related so hard to that because I remember when my daughter was born and I said to my mom like, oh my goodness, my heart is now outside of my body. And I can't fully control it. And that is terrifying. And I said to my mom, does that feeling of that terrifying it's like mix of just extreme love, but then also terrifying because you just can't always protect them. And my mom's like, "Nope, it doesn't go away. Welcome to my life."

Dorinda: And I also talk in the book too, honestly, that motherhood is hard. It's not-

Julia: Yeah.

Dorinda: There were times where you're like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm done. There were times when it would be 4 o'clock, dark in London. And I think I really don't want to do this anymore. I'm kind of over it because in order to be a good parent, the monotony is important. They love the ritual. They love the repeat. So, I don't know about you, but there were many nights where she was like, mama, can you please read this again? And I'm like, no, I can't.

Julia: No. Oh my God. So when you're a single mom and you're managing, I always think about like your life as a pie. And when you're managing to try and date and your love life on top of being a mom, it's a big piece of the pie. Can you talk about how you sort of navigated dating?

Dorinda: I've always sort of been a person that dated with purpose, but I definitely dated with purpose once I was a single mom, because I worked as well as a single mom. So I would be up everyday. We'd make our beds, we'd go to, she went to Sacred Heart. I would work. I'd pick her up. She was my focus because I wanted to get her to... I think for mothers, it's not about the micro, it's about the macro. You've got a goal in mind to get them to the finish line. You could really screw that up if you don't watch out. It doesn't take much to kind of... We definitely screw up all the time, but got to make sure there's a majority of consistency in your life with them. But I was just like, I have some ground rules. You don't sleep over my house. I'm not going to get married unless you're going to take my daughter on as fully as I do. And I don't want to play around doing bullsh*t. I just don't.

Julia: Dorinda talks a lot more about navigating co-parenting in the full interview, so do go and listen.

Star of The Hills, Whitney Port told me about her journey to motherhood—she has a 4-year-old boy, Sonny, and the challenges she faced along the way.

Whitney Port: It wasn't super planned, but I had been off my birth control and it happened pretty fast. And yeah, I was pretty shocked and I knew nothing, I knew nothing. I was terrified. Like the thing is, I was not so terrified of the birth and having the baby really, it was just like I was terrified of the pregnancy. I was just so scared of the unknown, of what was happening to my body.

And also I was really, really, really nauseous for like the first 18 weeks, so that just made me not feel very connected to the pregnancy either. I also didn't find out, we never found out if it was going to be a girl or a boy, and I love that we had that surprise. But I wonder if not knowing the sex made me feel some way less connected to it. So yeah, the pregnancy portion of my life was definitely not my favorite. But I'm trying to look at it with more of a growth and learning lens, because I think that once you've kind of gone through it you can have, I don't know, an easier attitude about it I hope.

Julia: No, yes, absolutely. It is that great transition into parenthood like we talked before, that loss of control, your body's kind of taken over. I mean half of it is worrying about the baby, half of it is worrying about your own self. And then you're kind of projected into early motherhood, which is a whole other trip.

Whitney: Yes.

Julia: What was your experience at that postpartum period and early motherhood?

Whitney: The postpartum experience for me was really, really challenging. I didn't know who to turn to, my mom who had five kids who you think that she would kind of be your guide. Like she really, I felt like she was scared to tell me what to do a little bit. Like breastfeeding was very, very, very hard for me, and it was never really hard for her. And so I don't know, it was like where do you turn?

None of my really good friends had had babies yet or were in that phase, and so I had a very, very difficult time. I exclusively pumped for six months, I got mastitis three times. I continually told myself after getting mastitis that I was going to quit breastfeeding, or pumping, excuse me. And I didn't because I was just too held back by the guilt and held back by the unknown.

Julia: So much emotion goes into it.

Whitney: Exactly, so much emotion. And so that first six months of Sonny's life is just a fog for me because of that. I think that I was struggling with that whole relationship with breastfeeding day in and day out, I wasn't even really focusing on my relationship with my baby or what my baby was even up to.

Julia: I also asked Whitney if growing up with four siblings had informed her and her husband Tim's decision about how many children they hoped to have.

Whitney: So I think when I was younger, I think when I was like a late teenager into early twenties I think I was always like, I'm going to have a big family for sure. I love my big family so much, I'm so connected to them, it's just the most fun. I never went to summer camp, summer camp was always just at our house. And then I think as I started to realize that I wanted so much more out of life for myself, which included a career that really was very, took a lot of hard work. And I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I had that entrepreneurial spirit because my dad had that and I think it's just sort of in my blood. And I realized that maybe a large family wasn't something that was going to allow me to be super happy and balanced.

So once Timmy and I started talking about kids we were always just on the two-to-three train. And we still haven't made a definitive decision, we always try to keep things loose and open-ended. But I don't know, after having one I don't know that I could have more than three.

Julia: I feel you, I have one daughter and I am very happy with that. I also thought that maybe, I mean, I'm in a different situation because I'm a single mom so that sort of takes some more thinking. But no, the more I kind of, it's like a mindfulness thing for me, kind of just experiencing what it's like to have just the one child and appreciate that for what it is. There's a lot of perks.

Whitney: It's so true. There are a lot of perks and there's so much of me that would love to keep it as one. There is so much of me that feels like everything is just so wonderful and so beautiful, and life is for me personally and in personal health, my wellbeing, I finally kind of feel like I'm figuring things out and figuring out how to be happy while having a really full, busy life. And I'm like, oh my God, why kind of ruffle the feathers? But then there's just that other part of me that says do I see myself in 20 years looking back and possibly regretting not having a little bit of a struggle to have the second, and have a hard couple of years to then be able to give Sonny a sibling? Which he's started to actually ask me for which I never thought he would, but he did.

I hope that I'm not alone in this, it would make me feel better knowing I'm not alone. But I think that yeah, it's hard, it's hard to struggle. And it's hard to make plans and then think about wait, I don't know if I want to do what I originally said I want to do, or things aren't going the way that I thought they were going to go. I'm sure you didn't necessarily think, and not to get all personal-

Julia: No please, that's what we're here for.

Whitney: But that you were going to be a single mom, right?

Julia: Yes, absolutely. I think parenthood and my journey into parenthood, and I think for all parents everywhere and moms, it's such a lesson in not being able to control your life. We all know that we don't have real control over our life. I mean we can influence it as much as we want to, but at the end of the day it's going to be what it's going to be and you kind of have to just go down that path a little bit I feel like.

Whitney: 100 percent. I mean my sister, she just had a baby, and the baby flipped like the week before she was due and she ended up having to get a C-section. And she was really torn up about it even though you know logically that that is going to be an option. But when it actually happens and you weren't prepared for it or you didn't think that that was how it was going to go, you immediately feel this loss of control that's very unsettling. And I think that is so much of what the beginning stages of being a parent is about. And part of me wanted to be like, welcome to parenthood, it's not ever going to go exactly as you have outlined.

Julia: There's Whitney Port.

I could not bring you an episode on parent personalities without including actor Ben Feldman. Star of Mad Men, Superstore, and Silicon Valley, Ben is also dad to Charlie and Effie. I asked Ben if he felt like he was becoming his parents since his kids were born.

Ben Feldman: Yes. No. Yes and no, I guess. Obviously, the old cliché. Being a parent is just trying to undo all of your own parents' mistakes. But there's a lot of things about my dad and my mom that I emulate as well. Although it is kind of funny to me that, one day, Charlie will be married to a woman or a man ... At some point, he'll be in a fight with his husband or wife or whatever, and they will say, "OK, Ben," and they'll mean it as an insult, and he'll storm out of the room.

Julia: You're thinking about that moment. I love it.

Ben: Like that is just inevitable that someone will use my name to insult my children by saying, "You're just like Ben." Like I know that's going to happen. Because that's every relationship.

Julia: What do you think that they're going to be doing?

Ben: Oh, God, it could be so many things that they could be doing that would be like me and the wrong thing to do. I'm sure it'll involve complaining or saying something inappropriate. Who knows? But yeah, no. You asked was I ready. I don't think anybody is. I think anybody who says that they're ready is lying. And anybody who says that it's easy or that anything has gone smoothly is lying. One thing that I tell a lot of ... I have a friend who's going to be a dad soon. And I was just telling him what I tell all of my guy friends that are going to be. I say, probably, the kid's going to come out, and you're going to be like, "Oh my God, something in me has changed. I love this thing." Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you're like me, that won't actually be the case. If you're like me, you'll look at the kid, and you'll go, "Yeah, on paper, I love this thing. And I get that I would do anything for it or whatever." But secretly, you're thinking, "Am I incapable of love? Am I a narcissist? Why do I see my wife having this unbelievable just physical animal connection to this kid, and I'm just sort of like, 'Yeah, all the boxes are checked, but I don't have that feeling. I'm happy to walk away from this thing, and it's just a thing to me.'" And then somewhere around six, seven, eight months or whatever, that dissipated. Maybe I am a narcissist. Maybe it started with when the kid, when Charlie, because he was our first, started laughing at my own jokes. And I was like, "Oh, this thing appreciates me. Now I love it." But whatever it was, at some point around the that time, something changed for me. And I was like, "Oh, OK. I get it. I would jump into traffic for this thing." And it's no longer a thing. And now they're all I think about. My wife and I are going away for a couple nights to Mexico, in a couple weeks. While I cannot wait to sleep past 6:30 a.m. and to day-drink, I know that I'm going to be thinking about them and desperately missing them the entire time we're there. And that's not something I could've pictured one month into Charlie's life.

Julia: Oh, I think that's such an important message though. It hits different people at different times, just that flood of parent love right there.

Ben: Yeah. And there's a little bit of a learned, not to belittle the mother's experience, because that's just one of sort of the miracles of human nature is that they can make that connection so quickly, but a lot of times, with the dad, a lot of times, not always, it's almost a learned or earned kind of love. Because you're irrelevant for months. You're so irrelevant. You're a housekeeper. You're the grocery store goer to her. You're whatever needs to happen, but you're not necessary to the kid. You're in the way a lot of the time. So it can be scary, I think, and a lot of dads won't admit that because it's such an ugly thing to say. Like one month in, everyone's saying, "You must be so excited. This is so special." You can't say, "Yeah, I guess." But that's sort of how I felt.

Julia: No, you're not allowed. You just have to go, "Uh-huh Yeah."

Ben: You have to go, "Yes. Oh my God. Something in me is different. I'm a new person now. The world is different to me. The sun is always shining." Blah, blah, blah. And it's bullshit. Or at least it was for me.

Julia: Yeah. Maybe more of us should say, "Yeah, I guess." maybe we should be a little bit more honest …

Ben: Yeah. And what was great with Effie, the second time around, was I knew that's how it would go. And so the confidence in knowing that that will come if it's not there at the beginning kind of makes everything so much easier and more relaxing and happy. And it allowed me to actually sort of develop whatever that connection is with Effie sooner, because I wasn't constantly worried that it just would never happen.

Julia: Yeah. No, totally. And you know what? I'm a mom, too. And I've just discovered that I don't think I'm a big baby person. I loved her as a baby, but I think I love her even-

Ben: Oh, fuck babies.

Julia: Fuck babies.

Ben: I hate babies so much.

Julia: Did I just say that?

Ben: Babies suck, man.

Julia: Listen, I feel like I have to back up a little. Babies are great. My daughter was the best baby in the world, naturally.

Ben: Sure.

Julia: But 5-year-olds? Way better. Definitely recommend

Ben: Yeah. I want someone who I can have a conversation with.

Julia: Same. Same.

Ben: Babies don't do anything. And they just take and take and take. And if they're not taking, they're crying. I don't know. That's the other thing. Maybe that's what it was is I just couldn't pretend that I was happy to have a baby in my house. And the second Effie, once the diapers went away, all the little sort of milestones that say she's no longer a baby, to my wife, it was depressing because it's like, "This is the last time this'll ever happen." To me, it was like, "Great. This is it. This is the real beginning for me."

Julia: Right, right. So you guys are done. Two kids, done.

Ben: Done. Done.

Julia: Donezo.

Ben: Done.

Julia VO: Thanks so much for listening to some of my favorite moments from my guests here on We Are Family. Be sure to follow We Are Family on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen so you don't miss an episode. And we'd love your feedback. If you could rate this podcast and leave us a review, we'd really appreciate it. You can also find us online at parents.com/wearefamilypodcast.

We Are Family is presented by me, Julia Dennison, and produced by Sam Walker. Editing is by Vincent Cacchione, and thanks also to the rest of our production team at Pod People, Rachel King, Matt Sav, and Danielle Roth. We'll see you back here next week for more We Are Family!